Women in Hardcore...according to Miles Away, Sovereign Strength, and Blood Stands Still |
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“No clit in the pit!” These are one of the more common phrases you hear at a hardcore show, if you’re a female. Girls being at shows, or in the hardcore scene at all, has become a huge issue in the contemporary hardcore scene. Bands and listeners alike have set up invisible barriers in the scene persecuting girls and saying such things as “Girls can’t be hardcore.” And “Girls can’t be Straight Edge.”
Danny Banura, guitarist of the hardcore band “Blood Stands Still” had mixed feelings when asked what he thought of girls in the hardcore scene. “I think it’s good as long as they are not causing stupid drama. Yosu come to a show for the music. Don’t come and start shit with your ex at the show” Says Dan. “If you are standing close to the pit, don’t fucking cry when you get hit. And don’t go get your boyfriend to do something. That’s just drama. And the less of that at shows the better.” There are some, however, who have a different mindset regarding girls in the hardcore scene, girls being straight edge, and girls being in bands. Cam Jose, guitarist for the hardcore band “Miles Away”, and Nelson Flores, guitarist for the band “Sovereign Strength”, spoke their minds regarding these issues on behalf of their bands. When I interviewed Nelson Flores, he seemed to have a positive outlook on women being in the scene, and he even says he supports women in bands. “Its dope seeing girls in bands!” he said. “I have girl friends that are in the bands ‘Take Everything’ and ‘The Great Commission’. I respect girls that are in the hardcore scene for the right reasons. If they're there just for the attention, not only do they not belong in the hardcore scene they are a walking contradiction. Cam Jose also seemed to have a more positive outlook on women in the scene. “Women in hardcore is an interesting issue. I have noticed in Australia and in the US, that women are not always welcomed into the hardcore scene.” Cam says. “Through out Europe and Asia it doesn’t seem to be much of an issue at all.” He adds. “The fact that hardcore is predominantly populated by males does not help this. It can sometimes be a macho testosterone induced orgy.” Location can also play a crucial role in how people perceive a hardcore band or scene. More known cities such as D.C., New York, and L.A., are where some of the best hardcore bands including Minor Threat, Bad Brains, and the Cro Mags began. These cities and their scenes automatically receive more credibility than bands from smaller, more rural areas trying to break out and start something new. That brings us back to the hardcore scene being mainly a “macho testosterone thing”. Guys from New York or L.A. are more likely to think their scenes are “rougher and tougher” than guys from Marshalltown, Iowa or Apple Valley, California. The hardcore scene has drastically changed from an escape and a new hope for misunderstood teens, to a crew infested fashion show. “These days a lot of kids just come to shows for band merch, or because it’s cool” Says Cam. “I guess in a way hardcore is slowly becoming more mainstream, and in that you get dudes in bands being treated differently, like they are better than everyone else. What the hell! This is hardcore keep that shit out!” So where do women fall into all of this? People that have, and that continue to, divide the scene and twist its original intention into what it is today strategically make it so women feel unwelcome in the scene with phrases such as “No clit in the pit”, crews committed to hitting girls at shows, etc. This is where the sexism comes in. It is people who twist the meaning of hardcore, and what it’s really about. So should women step aside and let the scene be filled exclusively by men? “I personally don’t have a problem with women in hardcore or with women being straight edge” says Cam. “Some of my best friends are women who I have met because of hardcore. I have heard so many times that women can’t be straight edge because they are girls. I actually say this to my female friends who are straight edge as a joke. It is a joke right? After all straight edge is not a gang, there are no prerequisites, there are no initiations, you just are, male or female, black or white, short or tall, skinny or fat. It is hardcore; it is a place where we should all be able to fit into, all be accepted for who ever we are! Hardcore is supposed to embrace all those things positive, leaving things such as racism and fascism at the door, but a lot of the time sexism gets through and can be an issue. But really what is the issue with women in hardcore? Is it because it is HARD-core and society says women are not meant to be hard? Is it because women shouldn’t mosh? Is it because girls can’t be straight edge? These are all so stupid and women have every right to do what every dude does. As long as they are there because of the music then there should not be a problem. And this is where the issue really lies; Being there for the music.” The scene probably always will have barriers and segregations; but as long as there are people in the scene that remember the true meaning of hardcore, and that keep in mind that hardcore is about the music, we can continue to keep hardcore alive! Special Thanks to:
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  written by tifanie  ,
November 26, 2008
I'm edge and enjoy very much. Ive had people hit me on purpose to try and get me to cry and stay away from dancing. Doesn't bother me, I dont cry, and I dance just as hard as any dude. Yes it's male dominated, but come on if christians, atheists, vegans/vegatarians, and nonveg kids can belong together at a show, why can't girls. I agree with the no starting drama shit, I hate the drama, save that shit for high school. [:
 written by OnE AnD OnLy ,
November 26, 2008
im not sxe, but im vegan. i go to shows a lot and i also hate doing drama there. dramas are for emo kids and im not such.
 written by C., November 26, 2008
I've been fronting a band for a little more than a couple of years now and being in the scene, people tend to dig it more than bash it. There's always some babies that are going to talk shit or intentionally cause shit because our genitalia is neatly packed on the inside of our bodies, but it's always just a few and it's extremely trivial. The girls in miniskirts and heels, huddled together always make me laugh though. It's common sense; don't stand on the outside of the pit unless you don't have a problem with getting hit. I'd love to see more chicks in the scene to show those sex-focused fascists hardcore's not just for males.
 written by Boyle Heights Crusty, November 30, 2008
Damn this is a very powerful article. I've never realized the importance of a uni-sex society. mad props to the writer for her hard work, research and devotion to the true HARDCORE scene!
-Boots
 written by Nekrun, December 01, 2008
as I see it, you can't really find some ideas in "tough guy hate-edge" part of hardcore scene (except jawing about straight edge in every single song, or hate, whatever /there are exceptions, of course/), in the more punk oriented scene is situation different (feminism, animal rights, politics, self education in global), I think...at least in Europe for certain
 written by xCHESTERx, December 03, 2008
Ive been to my share of shows being a bit older than many in the HXC scene in Southern California. Im a fan of nearly any type of "sub-genre" and around here women are for the most part accepted, with some exceptions of course. I personally don't hear "no clit in the pit" or anything like that. But I have seen kids (both male and female) there for the wrong reasons. I have seen 2 out of 3 of the bands mentioned here, and yes, occasionally a girl may get hit standing too close to the dance floor and try to send her boyfriend in. Yet Ive also been to shows where women get down in the pit just like the guys and are given much respect. Im sure the experience differs around the country/world.
One thing that does bother me is guys (usually younger) objectify females, both in the crowd and in bands, just calling them "fine ass ho's" or screaming something stupid like "show your tits"....those boneheads dont belong in hardcore and should go see motley crue or some bullshit. On the same coin I see many young girls shamelessly going to shows more as a fashion show than to enjoy the music and yes many guys are just as guilty showing off their new ballcaps or nike's. I am a firm supporter of females in the scene and dont believe they should feel left out or different because of a few physiological differences, and Im a big fan of hardcore bands with female members (Gather, Walls of Jericho, Most Precious Blood, The Great Commission etc...) Hardcore is for everyone, black, white, brown, straight, gay, male, female, christian, non-christian, edge, junky, vegan, carnivore(but dont expect me to be too nice to you haha) to express themselves and stand up for who they are and what they are about.
 written by barrett, December 03, 2008
its my personal opinion that we need more girls in the pit, nothing gets me happier or more pumped at a show then watching a chick chase all the tough guy assholes out of the pit, hardcore is about unity not segregation and the more girls at shows not putting up with shit the quicker the less appreciative members of the scene are going to catch on, more power to any girl that can take the crap dished out to her and keep going to shows, or keep repping the edge, its tough for anyone and especially more so to women, nothing but respect and love for all of you
 written by GermanHC, December 05, 2008
I never ever realized before that there may be a sexism problem in the hardcore scene, but that might be because of "Through out Europe and Asia it doesn't seem to be much of an issue at all." Sure, it is male dominated, but without women it would be just BORING! Just as barrett I really do admire seeing girls in the pit as well as in bands, well, and up to now I really assumed nearly every guy would think that way... Those few girls that show up really seem to enjoy music/dancing/fun/crowdriding/whatever. Unfortunatelly many of them are pretty young in Europe and seem to change their predilections too early... Of course, there are a couple of blokes trying to cast out gals with their I'm_the_greatest_I'm_the_hardest_fuck_everything attitude. But be assured: those guys nauseate other males just as well as females in general. So if you like HC music and an appropriate attitude: just show up, lets have fun, and lets ignore ignoramuses...
 written by HCroatia, December 24, 2008
i'm female and i'm not edge but i'm very interesting about it.like HC and respect u guys and girls and that sexism problem in HC scene...it's pretty obviously but we don't give a shit about it.
 .we just need more girls in wall of death or in the pit I agree with u Barrett.
 written by Audeamus, January 01, 2009
I'm a girl singer in a progressive hardcore band. It's hard. We have trouble finding shows because I don't scream and, well, I'm a girl. It sucks.
 written by TaylorTragiccc, January 10, 2009
Down here in SoCal, girls that go to shows are mainly the sluts that got to attract the guys. I on the other hand is one of the girls that gets down in the pits, I go for the music, and of course all my friends go, I hang out with the guts. But gir;s down here and very accepted. But still there are some there for the wrong reasons. I go with my boyfriend. But I defend myself, most of the time were apart. I'm not edge but I know someof my girls are edge and get downin these pits. But the pits downhere are ruthless and brutal. So be prepared. But yeah we're mainly accpeted and we're just here to have some fun and see our friends and the bands.
Come for the right reasons. Not to start drama and shit.
 written by Jose Guerra ,
January 13, 2009
You know, girls in hardcore are the best thing that can be done!
 The singer of Reaching Hand is so freakin' good at singing! (and she's so cute ). And then the girls at the shows they put a kind of new emotions haha. At the end, hardcore is for everyone  Good blog by the way
 written by KtDestruction, February 02, 2009
im in a hardcore band and im straight edge. when i go to gigs people pay me out purely because im female. they also tend to keep their distance from me in the moshpit. i dont see why they are sexist, i mean its not like im gonna cry when i get hit in the face. this article is brilliant and i hope many people read it.
 written by blake, February 20, 2009
I honestly never knew this was a issue.
then again..i don't go to many hardcore shows..because there isn't any around here. I have gone to countless punk shows from Circle jerks, anti-flag, citizen fish, and others. with my girlfriend, and there always seemed to be about the same number between males and females at the shows. yes, i will agree with the fact that there is girls that come to shows, for the merch *fashion* they just stand around and they annoy me :/ and there is the girls that go to shows with there new boyfriends that try to piss of there ex's etc... but that doesn't mean that guys don't do that too  yes..it happens. anyway, back to the point. the fact that people actually think like that is pathetic. if girls stand close to the pit and they get hit. big deal..don't stand there. but purposely trying to hit them to make them cry etc.. is pretty stupid sounding. that just makes the person doing it look like an idiot and sexist. I say we need more " Clit in the pit " not less. i want more girls to be in the scene, i can't stand these shows filled with other dudes, yeah dancing with other guys is fine, no problem. but i want to more girls to be in the pit. it annoys me that when i go to shows, my girlfriend is one of maybe 5 girls actually in the pit. it makes me sad :[
 written by kousheru, March 09, 2009
i really dislike the idea that girls automatically cause drama or that being a girl is automatically linked with drama.
would anyone say "guys can come to shows as long as they dont cause drama?" geeez i have seen just as many guys cause drama as girls! its stupid feeling the need to exclusively mention that girls should keep away the drama. 
 written by Jul ,
March 20, 2009
A poor mans poor sport we’ve fallen short of reasoning.. sex does not determine capability.. but we let our hostility be our guide to decide what’s right for a girl and for a guy.. because every sex is just as able to keep this foundation stable.. enough is enough speak up its tough but don’t think that your unable.. let acceptance be our key to unlock our integrity.. from there we’ll be able to see that there’s more than just she and he.. no longer constrained by insecurity chauvinism aside we’ll let acceptance be our guide.. once this is done progression will come.. time and time again we take a step back from where we began.. I cannot stress this enough cannot run this course without you.. like its been said before two heads are better than one.. no apology just equality it takes a fool to see that a girl isn’t equal in the world.. never again.. there minds constrained voices retained our hearts beat the same they’ve been here just as long and they’re just as strong.. just as long.. still going strong.. overcome.. I can only hope that you’ll overcome.. stand up be strong
-A poor mans poor Sport, Stick To Your Guns
 written by blerrr, April 10, 2009
I have never come across this as an issue, i'm straight edge and i go to shows alot, i have alot of male friends who do aswel. i've never seen any girl stand on the wall of the pit and get hit and have a cry, if she sends her boyfriend after somebody who obviously hit her accidently and he acctually did something, then that'd make him just as stupid as her. It has nothing to do with sex. I totally agree that hardcore is about unity. Aslong as you're there for the music who cares?
 written by ledaedge, April 23, 2009
I'm edge and vegetarian, and all i can say after reading this article is that i am absolutely disgusted at hearing the amount of sexism from part of some of the males in the hardcore scene. i mean, isnt standing against all form of prejudice and bias one of the main things the sxe/hardcore scene is about? isnt calling out things like "no clit in the pit" and purposely hitting girls who are going to shows just to have a good time a complete self-contradiction from their part? its like the other users have said, if your going for the music and to just have a good time, it shouldnt matter what you are male or female, everyone should be shown equal respect.
 written by ATARAXY, July 30, 2009
The general consensus of the article and it's comments are well-founded and cogent, KUDOS!
 It is unfortunate that one particular negative opinion of this article is based upon band reputability, preeminence or band chart dominance. Just because some bands aren't as renown as others, doesn't make the underground opinion irrelevant. Thank goodness for variable opinion! As an Australian, I am familiar with ‘Miles away’. I found Cam Jose’s tidings refreshing and spot on. Not because he happens to be of comparable opinion to mine, but because we both reside within the same subculture. Knowing that he is aware of the mass male chauvinism that is found, only makes the truth behind the blatant, deep-seated animosity towards ‘Women in hardcore’, more steadfast. ‘No clits in the pit’, will always be a statement based upon pure bigotry. I take my invisible hat off to any Man or Woman who stands up and challenges this utterly intolerant opinion. I don’t want to delve into any personal experiences or provide personal justification when it comes down to what I’ve undergone. I wouldn’t be of my particular stance and voice of opinion if I hadn’t endured the above at some point in my life. There just seems to be a familiar direction of opinion when it comes to this issue and the issue wasn’t born in hardcore, it has derived from many subcultures and continues to thrive in many. If a Woman happens to engage in promiscuous (or just sexual), relations, she is automatically derided by many. Yet, Men are patted on the backs for their sexual achievements. They are deemed heroic. We are clustered in small numbers, in a scene that, in comparison to other sub genres, we come across scarce. Some of us have become so focused on what every Jane, Mary and Sam is doing behind closed doors, we let it interfere with our true reasoning’s for having an involvement within this scene. There really is no golden rule when it comes to what clothing we chose to wear. What a person wears is their own prerogative regardless of where the influence stems from. I wouldn’t dare render a girl in a skirt a hoe, just as I wouldn’t render a girl wearing basketball shorts a tom-boy. I really despise the whole, ‘fashion equals you belong in this particular coterie’ movement. We are born naked yet someone puts a particular item of clothing on and we often sexualize her motives for it. It’s a damn shame. I think we often categorize because it’s visually/verbally accessible, but a lot of time categorizing people means, ‘this is a reflection of my personal instability’. While Men remain the prominent ratio in hardcore, they excel at having utmost support from their Brothers. They can get away with behaving stealthy, wearing whatever they like and avoiding their convictions without too many people noticing. Not all Men in hardcore are like this, but when you have a conspicuous show of a particular gender, a pattern will be noted. I love my Brothers just as I do my Sisters, but this is an issue Women have been dealing with for thousands of years. The entire feminist movement is based upon equality. It’s not ‘WOMEN want to hold all MEN under cruel subjugation’. (Which I seem to think these Male bigots actually trick themselves into believing). We’re not Women looking for some kind of rites of passage based upon a Man’s ignorant ideal. We have no hopes of ruling the Male species or stooping to a demeanor that involves debasing a person for their gender, clothing or personal choices. We just want a fair go at being human, doing what we love without the prejudiced restrictions, being allowed to go to a show to support whatever scene desired, wearing whatever we like, standing where we please, making our own beverage choice. We want what any fair Man deserves. Respect.
 written by Katelyn Burkart, July 31, 2009
lol.
girls in the pit?? thats just silly. fuck all you hate-edge dudes. i can mosh just as fuckin hard as you. and im not gunna break a nail or mess up my hair.
 written by Ashley VanDeCasteele ,
August 04, 2009
I'm the only straight edge girl in probly my whole town and one over very few in the music scene in the area. I find this in my scene, but not so harsh. I'm 16, edge, short, and female...and I really like to mosh. I know just about every guy who moshes and each one has at one point apologized to me, yet I've never been hurt. I have to constently tell them "I know I'm a girl, but you are 3 times the size of me, I know i'll probly get hurt by you and I don't care. If i cared I wouldn't be in the pit" It bothers me sometimes. I find it funny though that I'm stronger then a handfull of the guys =D . But generally the guys around here are sad to see not many girls who play any instraments at all and were happy when i became a part of a band. It's all mixed signals but i'm happy to at least be partaily acepted. I hope one day guys get it.
 written by Maria a., August 06, 2009
im from australia, most of all the shows i go to are in the sydney region.
quite a few girls go to the shows and none of us have ever heard the phrase "no clit in the pit". alot of bands have been happy with the fact more and more ladies are getting into the hardcore music scene. the guys are extremely respectful and don't cop some feels. i don't know what its like in other states but it's pretty good around here. gender shouldn't get in the way of anything.
 written by Xmama shannonX, September 10, 2009
fuck that! straight edge is a belief....for anyone who is dedicated. i hate how they judge just cuz your a woman!
 written by Ryan V., November 02, 2009
I' all for girls going to shows, it gets me stoked to see them there seeing as most girls I go to school with look down on me for listening to the music i do.... but, if anyone starts to cause drama, it's a different story, about two years ago(i was 16 at the then) i got the hell beat out of me because my elbow accidentally hit the wrong guys girlfriend. The guy that beat me up was roughly 6 years older than me.... and the girl was dancing in the pit beside me...
 written by savanna, December 01, 2009
i totally agree with the drama shit.
girls always show up at these shows with their boyfriends who pretend to be all macho and once they get close to the pits they freak out and cause fights, arguments, beatings. Its dumb and if theyre there they should either handle it and get their shit together or leave. nobody wants to hear that or have their show ruined. we just want a fun hardcore show that is DRAMA FREE.
 written by Julie Jenkins ,
December 04, 2009
I'm 15, I mosh, and I'm a girl. Women aren't stupid. If men didn't have us, they wouldn't be here in the first place.
 written by XXXXXXXXXXXX ,
December 04, 2009
Listen to their song victimiser!
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 written by sir jorge ,
December 06, 2009
i can't find a sovereign strength cd anywhere...lame
 written by Rikashay ,
December 17, 2009
Being literally, the only Edge chick at my high school of 5,000 kids, or at least the only one who truly claims and reps it, I find I am very respected if not extremely rare. But in a way, if every stupid girl suddenly claimed edge to get into my guy friend's pants, or to be apart of the hardcore scene, we wouldn't be taken seriously, not one bit. Girls can be Straight Edge. Maybe guys just don't realize this because there aren't enough willing to speak out, or keep their legs closed for five minutes. When I go to a show with my guy friends, I realize that I am the only girl out of six in the entire venue who doesn't look like they're trying to find some dick. I'm there for the music and to support the bands and my friends. I have never been personally victimized at a show, and maybe thats because I wear a xDCx shirt and dont look like a slut. I stand right up there next to the pit, and go onstage when every other guy does. I'm not an idiot, I'll stay out of the way of the 250 lb guy dancing, but I'm not afraid to get hit. Or else I wouldn't go to shows. Haha this one girl got hit in the head at Sea of Treachery and she shrieked and was like, "EH MAH GAWD, OWWW! THAT HURT! WHO DID THAT?!" And ran out of The Phix, holding back tears. Ohh boohoo, do you blame me for laughing? I loved this article, thank you
 written by xjamesx_manchester ,
December 21, 2009
this shit is fucked up. i just posted a topic on straight edge online forums about prejudice towards female fronted hardcore bands. in the UK, and manchester, we don't fucking have this problem, only when the girls begin to take control of a situation, and only then do you get warry about it, because some big 18 stone, fuck, brick shithouse, could easily take her down with a flick of his elbow. so, i just want to say, right on, and don't fucking stop with your feminist rights.
 written by lauren ashhh. ,
December 26, 2009
as soon as i clamied edge, it brought attention that i didnt ask for, and although it was a recent decision, i MEAN it. and people cant seem to get it through their heads, that im not edge for the attention, or for the label, im edge because i fucking love hardcore music, and i have morals,you know? some asshole from school decided to call me "fake edge" because i couldnt make it to a couple shows? i mean, just because im not IN the hardcore scene 24/7 and i focus on school some, means im fake hXc, and fake sXe. and it pisses me off, i totally believe that hardcore is truly about the music, and edge is something that i wear proudly and stick to. and i dont see whay it cant be as simple as that, and people can just be nice.
*and all the people who critisized me, were MALES in the hXc scene.
 written by ugg boots ,
January 18, 2010
ge because i fucking love hardcore music, and i have morals,you know? some asshole from school decided to call me "fake edge" because i couldnt make it to a couple shows? i mean, just because im not IN the hardcore scene 24/7 and i focus on school some, means im fake hXc, and fake sXe. and it pisses me off, i totally believe that hardcore is truly about the music, and edge is something that i wear proudly and stick to. and i dont see whay it cant be as simple as that, and people can just be nice.ugg boots
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 written by Madison Ann Machado, March 11, 2010
I get picked on SO MUCH! Mainly by one group of really sexist assholes down here in Florida. They tell me that I won't be able to last. And that girls cant be edge because they always break. And I think they're finally starting to realize how wrong they are about me. They're doing everything they can, starting every type of nasty rumor possible to get everybody to believe that I'm fake. And as much as I say I don't care, I really do. A lot. I just hope that one day they'll see how immature they're acting.
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